Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby sallypz » Wed Jul 15, 2009 8:33 pm

Looks likle everyone's posted on this topic, well me too! (Sorry I haven't read all 330 posts) Back to the original question. What do Clutter, overweight, In debt, and hate job all have in common? One thing they have in common is pain. The person who has all in his/her life is in extreme personal pain. Clutter, Overweight, In debt are all collecting-things behaviors intended to be self-insulating. Like wrapping oneself in a protective warm insulating blanket. Underneath is the psychological pain. They are all also behaviors of Learned Helplessness. Helplessness to change. Inability to act on the choice to change. Learned helplessness also has another name it has been called 'victim mentality' by some. Learned Helplessness in this case is also a self injuring behavior. All 4, clutter, overweight, in debt, and hate job if go unchanged then become allowed self injury. Just as continuing smoking, with all the knowledge about how smoking does damage your body, is really a form of self-loathing, a form of slow suicide. sallypz (MoxieMe)
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby serialdreamer » Thu Jul 16, 2009 4:51 am

ooohhh.... I disagree that smoking is a form of self loathing...or that clutter is a means of hiding. I don't think we can ever know what these things mean to anyone without actually being them. One may collect things because they are looking for that perfect something to make them happy - perhaps they resent having a mortgage and are silently looking for a way out. We are always looking for ways to generalize which I think rarely works. We are all different uniqe and bizarre in out own ways. I just wanted to add my two cents this morning.
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby Tituba » Thu Jul 16, 2009 6:42 am

is really a form of self-loathing, a form of slow suicide.
Hmmmm.....well that would go for about anything extreme (exercise, dieting, workaholic)
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby paradise52 » Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:55 am

We are creatures of habit, and habits regardless of how destructive they are give us a feeling of comfort and predictability. We generally have to have a cognitive shift to exchange one habit for another, and even if that happens - such as the death of a good friend or a love-one who smoked- there is no guarantee that the new habit will last unless we have support and feel comforted by that change.
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby Tituba » Sun Sep 13, 2009 11:06 pm

This looks like a good book on this subject http://www.amazon.com/Immunity-Change-P ... 393&sr=8-1
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby Tituba » Fri Jul 23, 2010 9:20 am

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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby kashtanka » Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:17 pm

I agree that it's an interesting blog. There would only be a few genuine needs if people did this.
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby musicvixen24 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 4:46 pm

I just happened to find this forum during a search and this is spot on with how I am feeling recently.

I am turning 27 in a month and I am finding it difficult to grasp. I stay awake at night crying and reliving my past mistakes,like getting blackout drunk at a work Christmas party...then I conclude no wonder I am where I am at in life. I am very overweight, semi active when I am not extremely depressed, Single with no prospects or dates on the horizon, in debt up to my ears, can't decide what grad school program to do, an alcoholic that was unsuccessful with 2 outpatient programs and 2 stints with AA and still a daily drinker, I hate my job and have been trying to leave for 3 years. i just feel so overwhelmed with life. I don't have problems blaming myself for the issues, but I don't know how to change all these issues. I haven't read through all the posts in this thread, which I am going to do because I find it so interesting. I realize that these issues run deep, but I"m not sure what the core problem is....it's got to be low self esteem, b/c I fail at everything i try literally, diets, plans, promises, AA, anything that can possible help me. I probably wouldn't go to work if I didn't have rent and 2 cats. maybe it's comfortable to be where I am at, but how can that be when it makes me so miserable. I don't get it.

Anyway thanks for starting this thread, it's something to explore and think about it.
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby elizagard » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:44 pm

Hi Musicvixen,

How did you come by that name? Do you play music, sing, or maybe just listen to music? I've not been in the same position, and am not really sure what to suggest. But I just wanted you to know that someone is listening and heard you.

Elizabeth
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby redplaidpurpleplaid » Mon Sep 20, 2010 8:52 am

musicvixen24 wrote:I stay awake at night crying and reliving my past mistakes,like getting blackout drunk at a work Christmas party...then I conclude no wonder I am where I am at in life.

Hi Musicvixen,

One of the things I love about Barbara Sher's approach is that she says, there is always a good reason why people do what they do. It's not an excuse, per se, but the way I interpret it is there is always some need you were trying to get met. Then you don't get into the endless loop of blaming yourself. Even if the actions had undesirable consequences (and even if it wasn't the best way to try to get your needs met) there was always some noble motivation at the root of it.

i just feel so overwhelmed with life. I don't have problems blaming myself for the issues, but I don't know how to change all these issues.

Again, Barbara says (in Wishcraft) that the two things everyone needs to succeed are know-how and support. And if you didn't get those things as a child, and haven't had them on an ongoing basis....you can go ahead and obtain them now, but it's very simple why you haven't succeeded till now! I personally find that very calming and reassuring.

People talk about "self-love", I find this a very broad (perhaps even grandiose) concept that is difficult (perhaps even impossible) to just pull out of your hat from nowhere. Obtaining know-how and support gives you a good place to start.

Actually, I would say "self-knowledge" is probably the first pillar, i.e. this is me, these are the things I'm good at, these are the things I'm not so good at, I am the full spectrum of "good" and "bad" like any other human being. Then the second thing is "self-acceptance", which again you can work on by yourself (through meditation or other observation practices) but most of us need support from other human beings to do this.

I"m not sure what the core problem is....it's got to be low self esteem, b/c I fail at everything i try literally, diets, plans, promises, AA, anything that can possible help me.

There is an exercise called Jet Clarity on page 281 of I Could Do Anything....If I Only Knew What It Was that I would recommend doing, except do it imagining the first time in your life when you felt "I fail at everything I try". Actually I would recommend reading that entire book, as well as Chapter 3 "Understand Your Feelings" in Live the Life You Love.

Needless to say, if it gets too intense on your own, consider going to a therapist.

maybe it's comfortable to be where I am at, but how can that be when it makes me so miserable. I don't get it.

No. My personal opinion is that this concept is more of that subtle ignorance, that is vague enough for people to interpret as blaming the individual for their own predicament, that shows up in "personal growth" approaches from time to time. "Oh, you must be depressed because somehow you are comfortable being depressed, or maybe you even like being depressed." No! Nobody hurts themselves willingly and on purpose! Or at least I don't think they do, I believe true masochists are very rare, it simply wouldn't make sense to have a species that self destructs. Life always moves in the direction of life, of survival.

The way I see it is that living things are always maintaining equilibrium, homeostasis, or balance. I know extremely little about family systems therapy but that's what I understand it to be about, people take on roles within their families of origin that compensate for imbalances elsewhere. In short, they do whatever it takes to get love and nurturing. Those strategies do not always serve us well in the adult world, however.

So the question is how to get out of the rut. The only way I know is to add a physical component. That can be exercise but I am particularly talking about the body/mind integration methods: yoga (if the type you practice has a significant awareness component), bioenergetics, any energy healing method (I know some people think these are questionable....all I can say is you have to try a few and find one that you feel an effect from). For any of these, learning it yourself from a book (and I know in my area there are inexpensive Meetup groups devoted to these topics) is a less expensive option than hiring a teacher or practitioner if money is an issue.

I plan to post something specifically related to the original topic later when I have time, but what I have just said relates to that too.

Wishing you the best,
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby calliecat » Wed Dec 01, 2010 2:47 pm

What is the root cause and how to change? Here's my thoughts:
It all started with wanting to be loved, but not getting it. From then on everything done was to protect self from pain, all the behaviors and thoughts, positive or hurtful, they all started that way. But they continued and expanded as the years went by, till we don't recognize why we are doing them. That is because they've now gone into the habit and comfort zone area of the brain. Now, it is hard to make a change because it is easier to stay the same (no matter how painful, it is still a familiar pattern) than to change (which takes conscious effort, awareness, know-how and support). It is hard to change anything, not enough just to want to. Sometimes it takes extreme pain to force us to make a change.

I think accepting yourself in whatever state you're in is a good start. And then focus on adding some things you like to do into your life. It is too hard to focus so much on changing (fixing) the things we don't like about ourselves, it is endless and depressing. An alternative is to approach change by what you are going to gain in life, rather than what you have to give up (that's a loss and feels sad). Instead of saying "losing weight", you could say you are gaining health, more strength to do activities, more energy, new clothes, whatever makes you feel good and is what you want. Just a change of focus and different words can help.

Clutter - I like my stuff, but it's all over, unorganized (I moved recently) and I can't find things now. The stacks of stuff are strangely comforting to me when I am going through stressful times (now). I seem to attract stuff (and cats). I need to clear a space to draw, no matter what I'm going through, because it is calming to me and makes me focus. My piles are like a stress barometer - when I'm happy, the piles go down, when I'm stressed, the piles stack up very high. My cats love the piles no matter what, and don't mind when they change - they are so accepting of me! What if we all had kitty brains? (humor)
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby Reality19 » Fri Jan 14, 2011 4:59 pm

I have gotten rid of tons of stuff in the past year. Lost alot of weight - gained some back - losing it again. Debt - still there (would like that to change). Hate one job (well certain aspects of it - though it has it's uses) - other one is okay but - has it's issues as well (low pay, off and on availability). Over educated for what I am doing for a living and the pay. Trying very hard to change my life. The main thing I see as my obstacle is a lack of a support team (my whole life - my family - negative - me tending to be a loner and always on the outside looking in). I thought getting an education, tossing out stuff and losing some weight would change my life. Still waiting for that to happen however. I think to acheive success one needs up close and personal support from family, friends, and/or loved ones. Not neccessarily money or material things - but just other forms of support.
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby gone to the dogs » Sat Jan 22, 2011 11:20 am

The chaos and clutter in my life got very bad this past autumn, despite occasional brief spurts of motivation brought on by watching those shows about hoarding. My problem was no where near as bad as those extreme cases but I wasn't at all happy with the state of my home. Checking the forums associated with those shows I found nothing much more than people who could only say YUK, how horrid, appalling, etc.

Then a few weeks ago I stumbled up on a site called Stepping Out of Squalor and I've done more in the past few weeks than I had in several months. It was the right help, at the right time, for me.
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby alicat007 » Sat Jan 22, 2011 8:58 pm

Dear MusicVixen,

Here is one thing you ARE good at, self insight! You are able to look inside of yourself, and understand that somehow you have control over these things, this is a gift in itself, there are many folk in the world without this wonderful capacity/ability. With self-insight comes wisdom, hang in there, I believe you are on the right path, you just haven't seen your sign posts yet.. or perhaps you have? I dont have an answer that will solve your issues, but you do have answer, keep looking inside, its in there somewhere. Maybe try meditation and mindfulness as a way to open your doors.
AliCat :)
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Re: Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job

Postby Tituba » Mon Jan 24, 2011 5:11 pm

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