ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

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ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby BarbaraSher » Mon Oct 12, 2009 6:25 am

When I was in L.A. I came across an article about it: a man (Israeli? Living in Los Angeles. as I recall.) The car will be on the streets within a couple of years in 4 places: one might be Denmark (drat, wish I could remember) and one is Berkeley, CA. He's got lots of backing by Renault (?) and is busy setting up 'gas stations' which are really charging stations. Interesting thing: the car isn't small. Doesn't have to be anymore since gas isn't required to push it. Also, it's fast! Goes from zero to over 50 (60?) in 6 seconds. This is all from memory so I don't know how wrong I'm being about the details. I'd love it if someone with more time would find us a link. This could mean (unless the oil companies send out a hit squad to this guy) that it will be possible to buy cars that need no gas at all within a very few years. I think the earth will breathe a sigh of relief. I will, I know.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Oct 12, 2009 7:01 am

Just a few cons to start: Electric cars will still take power plants to create the electricity to charge the batteries. That means either lots more coal or nuclear power. Charging takes a long time (right now, anyhow). You'll have to charge overnight for the next day. There will be a lot of batteries that need disposing of over the many years that follow them. Also, I read somewhere a guy said he was scared driving one, because it felt out of control. It might take us getting used to them. I'm not against electric cars, in fact, I would love not being dependent on foreign oil. I think the hybrid is pretty good in the fact that it charges while you drive and brake. Good research topic to revisit, though.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby BarbaraSher » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:20 am

Scenario Thinker wrote:Just a few cons to start: Electric cars will still take power plants to create the electricity to charge the batteries. That means either lots more coal or nuclear power. Charging takes a long time (right now, anyhow). You'll have to charge overnight for the next day. There will be a lot of batteries that need disposing of over the many years that follow them. Also, I read somewhere a guy said he was scared driving one, because it felt out of control. It might take us getting used to them. I'm not against electric cars, in fact, I would love not being dependent on foreign oil. I think the hybrid is pretty good in the fact that it charges while you drive and brake. Good research topic to revisit, though.
It seems those objections have been met, ST. for one thing, the 'gas' stations being set up include a transfer of batteries: you leave yours and pick up a charged one and leave in 3 minutes. Faster than filling up your tank. Did you find the articles or are you speaking from earlier knowledge? If the latter, and you find it, please include a link.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:57 am

BarbaraSher wrote:It seems those objections have been met, ST. for one thing, the 'gas' stations being set up include a transfer of batteries: you leave yours and pick up a charged one and leave in 3 minutes. Faster than filling up your tank.
Now that you mention it, I think I have read that somewhere, also. I'll try and look for links when I have some more time.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby GoCubbies » Mon Oct 12, 2009 3:25 pm

Barb, his name is Shai Agassi. http://www.newsweek.com/id/178851 One thing leads to another. http://www.newsweek.com/id/215544 Oops! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8299079.stm Who can predict? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... paign=Fina http://www.naturalgas.org/environment/technology.asp There are so many developments going on in all-things-energy. It's so easy to lock into a single, this-is-the-way-it-should-be idea. Much research in the U.S. leads to development outside the U.S. now because of regulation and obstructionism.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby BarbaraSher » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:12 pm

GoCubbies wrote:Barb, his name is Shai Agassi. http://www.newsweek.com/id/178851 One thing leads to another. http://www.newsweek.com/id/215544 Oops! http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8299079.stm Who can predict? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comm ... paign=Fina http://www.naturalgas.org/environment/technology.asp There are so many developments going on in all-things-energy. It's so easy to lock into a single, this-is-the-way-it-should-be idea. Much research in the U.S. leads to development outside the U.S. now because of regulation and obstructionism.
Yes, that's the guy. Nice work!!!
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Oct 12, 2009 4:42 pm

Oh, you were looking for the guy. I thought you just wanted links on electric cars. I guess I was in too much of a hurry this morning. You know that darn work, it always gets in the way of my research. :)
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby BarbaraSher » Mon Oct 12, 2009 5:44 pm

Scenario Thinker wrote:Oh, you were looking for the guy. I thought you just wanted links on electric cars. I guess I was in too much of a hurry this morning. You know that darn work, it always gets in the way of my research. :)
No, no I was looking for the links too! I want to know how they answer the arguments you put up. Great job.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Scenario Thinker » Tue Oct 13, 2009 6:15 am

BarbaraSher wrote:No, no I was looking for the links too!
Yes, the guy and the links for the guy! :)
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Knight » Sat May 10, 2014 10:55 pm

The electric car has had a few pitfalls over the years:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed ... ectric_Car
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Elaine Glimme » Sun May 11, 2014 1:08 pm

My neighbor has an electric car. A Chevy Volt, I think. I don't know all the details. He also has solar panels on his roof to provide at least some of the electricity. He just got the panels, and I don't know how well this has worked for him.

From my science classes, I know that transferring energy from one source to another is not 100% efficient, so it should take more energy to power an electric car that a gasoline car. On the other side of the argument, it takes energy to convert crude oil to gasoline or diesel, so maybe the refining process offsets the energy lost in converting from fuel to electricity.

I'm glad someone asked the question, because I've been wondering about that myself.

I know that there are other limitations on the electric car. But it's new. Anytime someone invents new technology, it takes a while and a few mistakes to work out all the kinks.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Knight » Sun May 11, 2014 4:59 pm

The pitfalls I was talking about were political, not scientific. Stuff like Exxon buying all the rights for a super-efficient battery for a hefty sum of money and then refusing to allow anyone within Exxon or anywhere else, including the original inventor, to have anything to do with it.

Elaine Glimme wrote:From my science classes, I know that transferring energy from one source to another is not 100% efficient ...


Correct.

Elaine Glimme wrote: ... so it should take more energy to power an electric car that a gasoline car.


That is not automatically true. On a gasoline car you are converting gasoline to fire to pressure to kinetic energy and none of those steps are 100% efficient either. As the possibility of changing from gasoline to something else becomes more and more likely, there is also a big push to delay the change by making the existing process more and more efficient (compare 1974 gas mileage to 2014 mpg), but most of the new ideas, like regenerative brakes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regenerative_brake) would work as well on alternate fuel cars as gasoline ones.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Elaine Glimme » Mon May 12, 2014 5:21 pm

I didn't know that about Exxon.

Why am I not surprised?
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby Knight » Mon May 12, 2014 8:12 pm

I went to verify that "Who Killed the Electric Car?" was still on Netflix and it is not. However, a sequel called "Revenge of the Electric Car" is on Netflix and talks about the radical changes that happened between the first movie (2006, I think) and 2011.

I recommend seeing both.
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Re: ANYONE HEARD ABOUT THE ALL-ELECTRIC CAR?

Postby SquarePeg » Wed May 14, 2014 11:47 am

A good rule of thumb to guess whether one technology is more efficient than another is to consider how much heat is generated as a by-product. Gasoline engines produce a great deal of heat and need to be water cooled. An electric motor gets warm but not hot if it's sized properly. Usually an all-electric vehicle will have "regenerative braking," which is a system to reclaim the energy lost due to applying the brakes. Incidentally, hybrid aren't necessarily more efficient than gas- (or diesel-) powered one at all-highway driving. The hybrid shines in city traffic because of its regenerative brakes.

Many years ago IEEE Spectrum reported on studies of the energy footprints of various ways of modes of travel. I recall that they found that gasoline engines were surprisingly efficient, especially considering the processes of drilling for oil, pumping it, refining it and transporting it. But this was explained by how much infrastructure there is already for gasoline, versus how little there is for photo-voltaic cells, batteries, etc.
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