Reading Refuse to Choose Together

What should you do when you want to do everything? If you're fascinated by everything, and you've been called dabbler, dilettante, undisciplined, indecisive etc., this forum is for you.

Moderators: BarbaraSher, Tituba

Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby kim@eastwillow » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:10 pm

This is a thread that myself and another participant on these boards - La Fenice, have decided to open and use to discuss our reading of Refuse to Choose together. Join us!?!
kim@eastwillow
New Poster
New Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:56 am

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby La Fenice » Mon Jun 20, 2016 12:31 am

Hello!
So here are my first "findngs" while reading the book. I have just started Chapter 7 this morning, so I will tell about what I have discovered so far.

1) I realized that for the last few years I had not let myself be happy of enjoying my new interests! I did before, but I got used to disappointing myself when I would lose interest into something and leave it unfinihsed. So for the last years, whenever a new interest would come to me, I would focus IF and HOW that could become a source of income and after the first excited moment, I would discard the idea because it was unpractical/impossible... whatever. Of course this would also feed my feeling of being utterly stuck.
Well, now I have started dreaming again, happily, not stopping my thoughts and, the best thing of all: I have understood that I don't need to earn money from everything I like. :D What A RELIEF!

2) Finally I also realized that I DON'T WANT to earn money from what I like: I am horrible at marketing, I totally dislike it, I don't like to make anything for "clients", I like to make things for myself or people I know (and NEVER when they ask for things, if they ask, I feel suffocating... I like to do things spontaneously, just cause I feel like) and I hate the idea of getting money for what I do: I do it out of love and personal enjoyment. So that's that. :D I am glad I finally understood this.
It was so simple, yet it was not clear to me at all!

I think that's all for now!
La Fenice
Regular Poster
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:04 pm

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby SquarePeg » Mon Jun 20, 2016 10:05 am

I agree with #2 -- that's how I am. And I think my daughter is that way, too. So I'm glad that she went to an art-intensive high school and got a bit burnt out from it like I did. Now she's back to doing art just for fun, and her college major is "undeclared" in a design-your-own-degree type of program.

Oh, sorry, I'm not re-reading the book ATM. But I think this is a great thread!
SquarePeg
Mega Poster
Mega Poster
 
Posts: 1015
Joined: Tue Jan 26, 2010 9:36 pm

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby inspiresuccess » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:15 pm

Hi La Fenice,

Thanks for starting the thread. I bet lots of people will be interested.

I haven't read the book, but I will. It's the only Barbara book I haven't read!

All my life people have been saying, "Why don't you make a business out of it?" Because I don't want to. I also don't want to do volunteer work in every area I'm interested in. Pet sitting? love my own. gardening? love my own. home decorating? love my own. Etc. Tons of things I enjoy but don't want to make a business out of.

However, unlike you, I do have a few creative things that I want to make money from and have made money from. I saw a career counselor and he helped me understand something really important to me. 80% of me is creative, 10% of me is a teacher (I love to share what I learn), and 10% entrepreneur. That last 10% is what makes me able to create a business out of something.

Designing knitwear is one of the few things that I did want to make business out of. And I did.

I took a quick look at the "I could do anything...." book, to see what she says about scanners and divers. It's obvious that I'm a diver. Whatever I take up I dive deep down to the bottom of it and want to be a master at it. That's really important to me. For instance when I had a garden, I read books, I took classes, and over the years I created a really huge, amazing organic garden. When I started cooking, using the vegetables and herbs from my garden, I became a gourmet vegetarian cook. Again, lots of research, lots of reading, lots of testing, creating my own recipes, etc.

Because only 10% of me is a teacher, I rarely want to teach classes on anything I do. People always suggest I teach classes. Nope. Don't want to.

I don't know if the book you're reading will help a diver like me. Maybe you can let me know if you see any chapters about divers. Mostly on the website here, I only see threads about scanners. Maybe I should start my own called, "Are there any divers out there?"

It sounds like you've learned a lot about yourself so far, by reading the book. I hope your discoveries keep on happening!

Inspire
inspiresuccess
Mega Poster
Mega Poster
 
Posts: 1952
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 11:01 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby inspiresuccess » Mon Jun 20, 2016 3:48 pm

I just scanned the "I could do anything......" again. She only talks about "unhappy divers that look like scanners".

I'M A VERY HAPPY DIVER! I love my dives. I know what I want to make money from and what I just want to do for myself. But then.................I'm 61 years old! I've had a lifetime to figure all of this out.

Good luck to you youngsters, plus anyone my age or older, who hasn't figured out they're a diver. Trust me, DIVING IS TONS OF FUN!

Inspire
inspiresuccess
Mega Poster
Mega Poster
 
Posts: 1952
Joined: Mon Dec 17, 2001 11:01 pm
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby La Fenice » Tue Jun 21, 2016 1:51 am

In "If I could do anything..." I also thought I was an unhappy diver, but in Refuse to Choose it was clear I am a scanner.
For what I have understood, a real diver likes ONE subject but doesn't find the way to dive into it. In RTC it says that a diver CANNOT UNDERSTAND how people can like different subjects and be interested in different things.
For a scanner instead it is impossible to understand how people can be interested and focused in just one thing!
I believe every scanner has this will of making every interest "a radical choice" (like knitting, gardening and so on) but eventually they never remain absorbed in one single interest for a very long time: one moment they are gardening, one moment they are knitting... and after a while they go back to gardening (this is one kind of Scanners: those who go back to what they used to love).

So this is why I believe I am a scanner and not a diver!
I have been interested in Finland: I have learnt Finnish, I have moved to Finland, I had flags of Finland in my room, I would listen only to Finnish music... until I was done with it.
And the same goes for everything else like knitting: I have made whatever I wanted, until I was knitting very difficult things and I realized my "reward" (this is something that you hear of in RTC) is "to be able to do something" however challenging I choose it to be, I must learn how to do it. Once I have learnt it, it is not that interesting anymore (this is why I can make the body part of a very difficult sweater quite easily, but then if the sleeves are plain it becomes a pain to finish it).

Another example is Soap Making:
I have studied for months about making soaps, about the chemistry behind it, the different techniques... I have made many soaps and I even thought to open a business Probably if I could have simply sold some soaps online without all the bureaucratic headaches required here (I don't live in the US, here a huge amount of lab tests and stuff needs to be done on each formula, including if you just change colors or fragrance oil - darn expensive stuff, time consuming and killing any creativity cause once you make a test you need to stick to the recipe with no freedom of changing a single thing), I would have enjoyed that a lot... FOR A WHILE! But right now I am not making soaps anymore. Sometimes I feel like making a batch or two, and that's what I do, but it is not my obsession anymore: I know how to make it and I am happy with that: I don't feel the need to try every technique I know about. I feel like "great! What's next?" :)
La Fenice
Regular Poster
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:04 pm

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby kim@eastwillow » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:07 am

This is turning into a cool thread!! Happy to have come here this morning.

La Fenice - You have no idea how much this resonates with me "1) I realized that for the last few years I had not let myself be happy of enjoying my new interests! I did before, but I got used to disappointing myself when I would lose interest into something and leave it unfinihsed. So for the last years, whenever a new interest would come to me, I would focus IF and HOW that could become a source of income and after the first excited moment, I would discard the idea because it was unpractical/impossible... whatever. Of course this would also feed my feeling of being utterly stuck.
Well, now I have started dreaming again, happily, not stopping my thoughts and, the best thing of all: I have understood that I don't need to earn money from everything I like. :D What A RELIEF! "

The idea of making money wasn't the problem for me - that is, I wasn't shutting down because I couldn't find a way to make money with my ideas, but before I found RTC I was pretty much shut down from having my ideas - just because I felt like I never followed thru. Also, I had listened too much to other people telling me they didn't like all of my ideas, or I just needed to pick something - I sort of stopped trusting myself.

And... you are so right - what a relief to just be able to have fun with ideas.

This is where the Scanner Daybook has been a revelation for me. Right now it is the most clearly helpful tool for me from the book. I sat down yesterday and I think I did 3 big idea spreads - it is just FUN to let my mind roam and have ideas, and then more ideas, and then more ideas - and I can write them all down and it feels so special. It really does make the ideas feel more important. And there, I feel more important.

Have you tried the Daybook yet La Fenice??
kim@eastwillow
New Poster
New Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:56 am

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby kim@eastwillow » Tue Jun 21, 2016 5:15 am

The other piece for me that I'm looking at is "what is my reward?" - I love love love the metaphor of the honeybee. For a honeybee, he doesn't hang out at one flower - he only stays as long as he gets what he needs - then he moves on. If he stayed at only one flower forever he would be considered a "flawed" honeybee.

I LOVE that I can let myself off the hook for being a scanner - I just need to get my reward on things and then I'm ready to move on. And I think also make sure I set up enough circumstances that I can get the reward.

I'm not entirely sure yet what my reward is though - certainly it is something about learning - but the way I would say it is "I like to get the shape of things" - I like to understand well enough that I can see what will happen next. Once I know what is coming then I get sort of bored.

So there is an element of surprise or lack of predictability that is also a reward for me.

I'm still trying to nail down what the reward is exactly -

I think the rewards idea is one of the big differences between divers and scanners. Divers seem to get a reward by digging deep, learning more and more about a subject. Becoming more and more expert. But for scanners the reward is different - and comes more quickly.

Anyways - I'm still looking at what my reward might be. Have you gotten to this section of the book yet La Fenice?
kim@eastwillow
New Poster
New Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:56 am

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby La Fenice » Tue Jun 21, 2016 7:10 am

I am at chapter 7, so I think so! :D

And just yesterday somebody told me ONCE AGAIN that I just have to pick one of my passions and stick to it because all my life I have been not consistent with my interests and all I have to do is simply to stick to one thing -___-
Thank God I am reading Barbara's book and I am fine even hearing those words, because I know it is not my fault if I am not consistent: for real IF I WAS ABLE TO BE CONSISTENT, I WOULD HAVE DONE IT. And that's it.
So yes, it kinda hurt to hear this once again, but it didn't get me in the deep. It just hurt to see that this person doesn't understand how I am, but it is not like we can be understood by everybody on earth :D

Yes I have started the daybook from when I started reading about it! It is not that fancy, it is a simple notebook, but it does its job! I have been writing and painting a little into it and I really enjoy it!
A thing I have noticed is that while before some ideas would make me feel like "I should do something about it", painting it and writing about it in the notebook makes me feel way more calm. I feel that it is "ok" if I don't try to do something about this dream and I let it simply be a beautiful dream in my daybook!
It is a relief!!!
La Fenice
Regular Poster
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:04 pm

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby kim@eastwillow » Wed Jun 22, 2016 4:29 am

It really is a relief, isn't it La Fenice!!

You really explained it well, that it just playing with the idea in the Daybook is somehow satisfying and it takes the pressure out/off somehow. I would never ever have come up with this strategy on my own. Even just this one thing feels like a life-changer somehow.

I too know the pressure of people thinking you should just "get on with it" and find "the thing".

All that said, I do hope that I can figure out ways to get projects done sometimes. I think that is the other part of the book and of Barbara's messages in general - there are ways to get stuff done.

I have toyed with the idea of starting my own success team that I could meet with locally, 1x a week, but I haven't decided yet if I'm really interested in doing it... :-)
kim@eastwillow
New Poster
New Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:56 am

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby La Fenice » Wed Jun 22, 2016 6:16 am

Hey! I have thought of starting a Success Team as well! But I would like to be prepared about it so I am thinking of reading Wishcraft first: I think this is the right book where to read about it!
And I might have decided what my next step in life is going to be: I am thinking of studying for two years to get a Master's Degree, because right now with my bachelor there is very little I can do.
I am not passionate about this idea, but it would be the way to possibily find a job that allows me to do really everything (a step at a time).
There are moments when this idea feels suffocating and moments when everything seems to fit into place.
But two years is not that long and I know that once I start studying a subject, it starts to interest me a little, even if in reality I would never get interested in the subject on my own.
If I go through with this (there are still 3 months before the course starts and this is a looong time for a scanner :D ), I am going to use evert trick I read about, today! :D They will be needed, I am sure!

And I just realized that I used one trick once, without knowing about it:
when I was getting the bachelor degree, I was really under a lot of stress: I had to finish some exams (I had obviously left the ones I disliked the most) and write the thesis.
Right at that time I had started getting interested in Japan and I had decided to learn Japanese!
I ended up studying Japanese AND writing my thesis AND studying for the other exams all together. Japanese was my "go to" when I wanted to relax! :D
When I graduated, I expected to continue to study Japanese but all of a sudden my interest was completely gone.
I really think now, looking back at it, that it was my way to survive from all that stress!
A funny way, since I was just studying more instead of doing something really physically relaxing like doing sport or running... but that's it! :D
La Fenice
Regular Poster
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:04 pm

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby kim@eastwillow » Fri Jun 24, 2016 3:54 am

What an interesting awareness you had regarding studying + more studying being the way you relax !!
Wow - that seems like a big deal. So back to the reward idea, somehow you are getting a big reward from studying - yes?
But then not so much from doing anything from what you have studied!!

So maybe that just means always having a thing to study is good for you!

Can I ask La Fenice - what are you thinking of getting a Masters in ?
kim@eastwillow
New Poster
New Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:56 am

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby La Fenice » Fri Jun 24, 2016 6:24 am

Foreign Languages and Literatures (English and Finnish). It is the only Master I can get from my BA in those two languages and literatures :D it's not like I have much choice at all, which is not that bad in a sense :D

I have realized that my reward is learning how to do something... except for languages: I have started studying so many and I have always left them after a while, I think because I was getting bored not getting any reward at all: in the beginning learning is easy, there is the freshness of the beginning and you learn the first phrases fast, but then it becomes tedious, with learning vocabulary (I HATE learning vocabulary as they teach it)... and things get tedious.

Maybe I am just more in love with the excitement of beginnings! I don't know :D
But as I have learnt English once, I would love to actually learn another language until I am fluent with it.
I would really love this!

I have been reading a few books about how to study efficiently. One in particular was all about how to learn a language efficiently and now I am freshening up my Finnish (I forgot so much) using this new method and it is much cooler (but NOT effortless).

And what about you Kim?
What are you up to these days? :D
La Fenice
Regular Poster
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:04 pm

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby kim@eastwillow » Sun Jun 26, 2016 4:50 am

Hey La Fenice -

So, on reward: the idea that "learning" is the reward, that is where I landed too. But somehow I think that there might be more? At least for me. It isn't learning anything... and some things I end up going deeper with.

You hit on something interesting here - when you mention how they teach vocabulary - it becomes tedious.

I wonder if part of what goes on for us is that when learning is a CHALLENGE - and by that I mean, there is some sense of figuring something out. When I'm learning something tedious it is just like dumping data in - but if there is some "figuring out" then it makes it much more fun for me.

What is your native language? You certainly have great English skills !!! And Finnish, wow!!
So are you decided to go back and do the Masters? And if yes, then do you think eventually you teach languages? I think you mentioned something a while back about going back to school with an eye to getting some kind of jobs related to the schooling - so what jobs are you thinking of??

On me - so, I actually do freelance web design and am currently finishing some professional coach training. My quick story is - I did do a Masters way back in Cognitive Psychology - then I had various jobs, mostly in technology - in 2012 I was ready to do something new and so I quit my job and went independent.

It has been over 4 years now - and I have to admit to a few things: 1) It has been hard to make enough money, the independent life is a hustle... 2) I am starting to feel the old boredom bug creep in... I know how to do a website now, so there is no challenge in it left for me - so I'm looking at taking on larger projects that have a more strategic element -

And - I've always had this interest in career stuff - mostly driven through my own desire to find the "right thing for me" - so I'm certified in the myers-briggs, I teach workshops on StrengthsFinder - and now I'm finally going to get some certification in coaching with an eye to take on some (not full time by any means) clients who are looking to change their career path and manage their professional identity. I've got a pretty natural talent for really listening to people and hearing their strengths - and I often find in life that we don't focus on our strengths enough.

The finding of the Refuse to Choose book has been a total life changer for me. It makes me see now that my winding career path has been pretty normal - I was just following my own sense of engagement with topics - and that also I don't need to find the "one thing" - I will always have multiple things and that is ok.

It does pose a problem for money a little bit - and this I'm still working out. How to make enough money. Like I've been thinking about what is a "good enough" job??

So that is me - I hope it is clear - I'm just sort of typing what is coming out of my brain without much edit !!

Back to the rewards thing - I'm still interested in looking at my rewards more - what really makes me feel GREAT when I'm doing it - and why. I think that is important information to have .... Although I don't have a great idea about how to dive in more deeply. I need to go back and read the sections where the book talks about it.

I'm glad we started this thread - it is nice to have the conversation!!

I hope you are well. I live in Chicago area and this morning it is raining - so a good morning to be sitting down and having some coffee :-)
kim@eastwillow
New Poster
New Poster
 
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:56 am

Re: Reading Refuse to Choose Together

Postby La Fenice » Sun Jun 26, 2016 9:13 pm

Wow Cognitive Psychology!!! :D Sounds interesting! ha! :D

I have also felt for a long time that I wanted to start some business, but I have new ideas about businesses all the time... so I wouldn't stick to just one :D
For example one idea was to open an Indian Chai kind of place with also a corner where I would sell wool and people could come in, buy wool (or bring their own) and knit while drinking chai.
Now I realized I could simply invite my friends over and have Indian chai while knitting... with no need to set up a business :D

Yes, one of the chances are I could become a teacher (but right now in Italy it is not simple at all).

Of course I still feel that one day I would love to have my own business... who knows :D while I figure that out, I will be writing in the daybook all the ideas :D
La Fenice
Regular Poster
Regular Poster
 
Posts: 28
Joined: Tue Jun 14, 2016 12:04 pm

Next

Return to Refuse to Choose: The Forum for Scanners

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 12 guests