Barbara's New Rules: Stay Tuned!

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Postby Quest » Sun May 09, 2004 9:04 am

Mahara, I appreciate Ms. Sher's focus on 'action' vs. 'analysis' or 'reflection.' But, if I understand what she is suggesting, I do think it's going to be difficult to shift the tides from reflection to action without allowing some folks sufficient time to do the analysis/reflection part first. When the MBTI roll call was taken, it 'seems' there are more introverts posting than extroverts (at least there was on that particular thread)...and most were introvert intuitives at that. One thing about introverts, and especially introvert intuitives, they like reflection--often lots of it--before they take action. Then, when action is taken, typically it's swift and focused. I think the great thing about message boards like this one, is that introverts can put their thoughts out there--via reflection, pondering, etc. It's safe. I don't think as many extroverts--who are action people--are spending a whole lot of time on message boards. They are out in the noncyber world--jumping in. This isn't to suggest that introverts don't 'jump in' as well. But, again, it's typically not until enough pondering, thinking, analyzing, or reflecting has gone on first. So, to me, the analyzing, pondering, reflecting, etc. really are all parts of some people's 'action' process. Just some thoughts from the introvert gallery. [This message has been edited by Quest (edited May 09, 2004).]
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Postby Scenario Thinker » Sun May 09, 2004 12:30 pm

Quest, From a multi scenario thinker (and an INTJ), good point. ------------------ S.Thinker __o ^/v />
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Postby Tituba » Sun May 09, 2004 2:30 pm

I agree Quest. I started the Clutter-Overweight-In Debt-Hate Job thread for that very reason. So, I could reflect on my own issues. With the responses and my own reflection, I made some important connections in my own struggles. Since then, I've been finally able to take some baby steps towards my own dream. I was on this board for six months before I posted my own dream. I spend alot less time answering posts as I'm working on my own stuff. The threads about politics, religion and social issues I think detract from the intent of the board. While they are important issues, they get volatile and sooner or later, someone gets insulted.
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Postby moonstone » Sun May 09, 2004 3:54 pm

if I may add my 2 cents worth. I remember having a similiar experience when I posted 1st last year and received a very shrug reply. I think it would help if upon registration there was a letter of acceptance that newbies had to read and agree to, jus tlike in asoftware installation. I don't know think everybody's talent to help others brainstorm are "grown from the same tree". But we certainly could make it clear that it is expected of newbies to help others 1st, before asking for help on their own issues. It could be done gently and explain that it's a way for others to get to know the newby's style and thought process. It could be a way to explain that Barbara has thought of building community on line between folks who mostly will never see their faces. It could be spelled out that we don't just want to be another cold chat room, where people drop in + out and don't care. I think what Barbara is trying to achieve is to be applauded highly : how to be human, caring with a 2way-street attitude, so that nobody gets emotional burn out. I think we can get there- but I wish somebody had posted a few gudelines about posting 1st for others, get involved with others and then ask for yourself..I think we are all very vulnerable easily, so strict rules will scare some valueable people off.But explain to them that we are trying to have an online board with trust + community ....and that we are suggesting you introduce yourself by showing that you are not just self centered but care about others.....and I think they will understand better.........so yah I got very hurt initially as well..... but I am back + it's a pleasure. ------------------ moonstone
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Postby Scorpio Moon » Sun May 09, 2004 10:38 pm

Ok, now I'm pissed off. I've come to this thread to rant. So, today, someone posted a "Wish" to get help to find a job. I was left with the impression she needed to find employment right away, wasn't having any luck with the job search techniques she was using and wanted suggestions on how to change her approach so she find employment. She had a general idea of what she wanted to do, but couldn't define the kind of job she wanted. I replied, in my usual blunt manner, and offered suggestions. Others did as well. No one said anything directly critical. Well, tonight, she sent those of us who replied to her post an e-mail detailing all the hardships in her life--significant details not mentioned in her "Wish". She did thank us, but said she felt criticized by our responses. Her e-mail had a "you don't understand me nor my plight so everything you wrote only harmed and not helped" vibe to it. She said she would stop participating on the board because, "...I am not really advancing my life as a result of my posts here." For the love of God! If anyone is going to post here, why not be honest and spill all the details so everyone really knows what's going on and gives appropriate advice? It's a message board for crying out loud! It's a safe place to reveal things! Also, why can't people be honest about what it is exactly they want? If someone is wanting support--words of empathy and encouragement then SAY SO! If someone is wanting constructive feedback then be prepared for some potential light ego bruising and don't take it personally. No one is here to hurt other people's feelings. And if someone is looking for feedback, but you know yourself well enough to predict anything less than obvious support will perceive as harsh and it will send you into a deep depression, do us all a favor and preface your request by asking for "only positive feedback", asking people to be "gentle" with their comments or whatever. More than once I have seen people get upset because they didn't get the response they were initially hoping for. Well, maybe, if people were clear and HONEST about what they wanted from fellow posters, it would save EVERYONE a lot of time and energy. Personally, after today's incident, I'm backing off on giving advice. Obviously, even though people ask for help, once it is given you just don't know if it will open a Pandora's box or not. I know there are a lot of new people coming on the board, but I'm sticking with communicating with only the regulars--people who have proven themselves to be able to handle things. P.S: If you happen to find yourself distraught over the way in which people have responded to your thread, could you think twice before deleting it? You might not find the information given to be helpful, but someone who may visit the board in the future, do a search and come across your thread just might. [This message has been edited by Scorpio Moon (edited May 10, 2004).]
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Postby GiniDee » Mon May 10, 2004 1:54 am

Scorpio, you've made some excellent points within your rant. I missed the thread in question, as I've been deathly ill these last two days. But I too have felt the need to draw back from giving much advice, especially to people I don't know well from the boards. Thanks for sharing. I'm glad Barbara had a chance to read at least part of all this. When I'm better, I may volunteer to help out in some more meaningful way... if that's what could be most useful to Barbara and the Sherboard community. I'm still not sure what would be most needed or wanted. I'm in too much pain to be anything but fuzzy-brained right now. Glad to see that more people have added good ideas, though. All the best - GiniDee Image
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Postby Tituba » Mon May 10, 2004 3:20 am

Scorpio - yes, that is rotten when it happens. If you read the very first post in this thread, Barbara talks about that and how we "regulars" should step back from the thread and not rush in the help. I've been doing that and noticed alot of others are as well. What is your dream Scorpio and obstacle? Post it in Wishes. I think it is time for the "regulars" to put their own needs out there for us to support you!
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Postby soni » Mon May 10, 2004 9:14 am

Playing devil's advocate a bit here, but it does us well to remember that even a beloved pet whom we have cared for for years and who trusts us implicitly will lash out and bite when frightened and in pain - or when we hit a sore spot trying to bind a wound. How much more so when the person we are trying to help doesn't know us and is feeling open and exposed to the slightest hurt by virute of having laid themselves bare to an entire cyber-planet of God-only-knows-who strangers? Those of us who have been here a while know by experience that none of the board members (or danged few of us) would hurt any other board member on purpose and would curl into a fetal ball of self-chastisement if we did it on accident; and almost all of us have been in this harrowing position more than once and gotten out of it with the help of our friends here, so we know that even knowing this, doing so is hard stuff. This person was no doubt frightened out of her skull - she's on the edge, circumstaces-wise, she's gone and told the whole world all about her innermost fears and problems, and then no doubt spent the better part of long, dark teatime of the soul imagining greater and greater ways this rash and perhaps irresponsible action could come back to bite her. Ye Gods, I know that there have been nights after I've posted that have kept me awake in a dread of the coming light to see what awful thing I have wrought in my life by exposing my tender underside to the cruel, cold world - and I know you guys! Even the softest, gentlest cleaning of an open wound hurts magnificently. To one who does not know or trust the caregiver, every hurt is magnified a million times. She has gotten what she needed, and responded as best as she could in her condition. Allow her time to go off and lick her wounds in private while the medicine you offered works through her system quietly on its own time. Do not fall into the trap of giving with some imagined claim as to the proper response of the recipient. That's like giving money to the poor on the condition they spend it as you would approve. True, we would all like it better if every person we helped was appreciative (and vocally so), awed by our stunning, brilliant genius and generousity, and gushing in praise of our efforts on their behalf. And 99% of the time, here, that is the case. But while we are free to bask in gratitude's warm glow all we want, we shouldn't require a fix in order for those in need to be on the 'approved list' to receive our help. Help should be given for its own sake and because it makes us better people. The recipients, however, should be allowed to become better people on their own (and God's own) time. If you are here to help solely to receive the rewards of ego gratification and to have your imminence publicly recognized and applauded, and feel as if you shouldn't be asked to *gasp* assist the ungrateful despite the impact of their need and pain on their response, then perhaps you are not so far removed from those who 'hit and run' the boards with problems and then pack up their goods and leave when they have gotten their fix of petting and soothing, as well. [This message has been edited by soni (edited May 10, 2004).]
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Postby Jezicka » Mon May 10, 2004 9:45 am

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tituba: <B>Scorpio - yes, that is rotten when it happens. If you read the very first post in this thread, Barbara talks about that and how we "regulars" should step back from the thread and not rush in the help. I've been doing that and noticed alot of others are as well. </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Exactly, Tituba. Scorpio and Soni, please go back and re-read what Barbara's said and the comments she's interspersed with previous quotes here. She would like us to step back when we see a new poster if we have any hesitation regarding the post. Look to see if and how they've responded to others, wait to see if and how they respond to replies. Scorpio, if you spend a lot of time and energy on a post that you think might be useful to others, it might be a good idea to copy it, just in case. Soni, Barbara not Scorpio, feels we shouldn't be 'asked to assist the ungrateful'. Their need may be great, but the likelihood of their being actually helped is correspondingly small. And the chances of 'burnout' on the part of people who have been of enormous help to many are not to be ignored. [This message has been edited by Jezicka (edited May 10, 2004).]
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Postby Scorpio Moon » Mon May 10, 2004 10:01 am

Tituba: The crazy thing is, I, just like so many of the regulars here, feel no need to post in the "Wishes and Obstacles" (except on the rare or occasion) because I know what I want and, more often than not, can figure out how to achieve it. soni: I agree with the first part of your post. However... "If you are here to help solely to receive the rewards of ego gratification and to have your imminence publicly recognized and applauded, and feel as if you shouldn't be asked to *gasp* assist the ungrateful despite the impact of their need and pain on their response, then perhaps you are not so far removed from those who 'hit and run' the boards with problems and then pack up their goods and leave when they have gotten their fix of petting and soothing, as well." LOL! You have been dying for months to get an opportunity to direct those words at me, haven't you? Do you feel better now? I will say, the poster I was ranting about, did have enough integrity to say "thank you" to those who left her messages. And even though I was a bit offended by her e-mail, I have far more respect for her than for those who can't be bothered to offer simple words of gratitude. [This message has been edited by Scorpio Moon (edited May 10, 2004).]
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Postby Vict » Mon May 10, 2004 10:55 am

SM~ I can think of around 10 people I would like to direct soni\'s last paragraph to, but you weren\'t on my list! :lol: I have been toying with a driving analogy for this board. Everyone is welcome to use this way of getting from point A to point B as long as they don\'t destroy things around them to do it. But that\'s just the bare minimum of what we expect of people. Really, you expect better of other drivers that to simply not kill you! EVERYONE, new and seasoned drivers alike, get around easier if everyone is driving by more or less the same rules. The way you drive through an open stretch of desert is different than through a suburban residential neighborhood is different than urban rush hour traffic. New folks taking the time to understand a bit about the situation they are entering will make it easier for ALL of us. To the new folk who find these \'rules\' scary~ RELAX! We WANT you here! New ideas and perspectives are what this board thrives on. And your questions and obstacles give old timers the chance to exercise our creativity and hone our own thoughts. ------------------ Vict www.MeditationBeads.com
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Postby psychodoodle » Mon May 10, 2004 11:20 am

I'm new here, so I guess you'll all have to wait two weeks before finding out what my dream is! (and I do at least have a general idea of what I want!) I'm great at procrastinating, so that probably won't be a problem for me, but you have now given me an excuse to procratinate and I'm not sure that's a good idea. I have read in this thread that you want the new users to get to know the people here. A suggestion, maybe, to be able to look up user names by topics they have started (maybe even be able to find their comments to any post, although that may be a bit much). This way we can get a better feel for who you are.
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Postby MDG » Mon May 10, 2004 12:11 pm

Somehow, this discussion has bumped my own thinking/understanding/questioning to a new level. I'm knitting all I know, and suspect, together in a mighty long scarf of many colors. In the past few months, I've remembered the line from the Introduction to Wishcraft, "...all anyone needs is 'know-how' and 'support'." Since I feel quite comfortable and pleased with the support I get, I've been looking at the 'know-how' part. Omigosh! Who knew that was in my way?!!! ('Assumptions' were, and are, a biggie, for example.) Again and again I am reminded that we can't know what we don't yet know. Image But, one thing I am certain of is that, here, one can find out. I take your wonderful words and knit them into the colors of the scarf that rolls softly over the boulders along my path. Phooey! That's not much of an explanatory picture, but you know what I mean. Your thoughts lifted me over another biggie today. Many thanks, everyone. Mahara P.S. Maybe the 'search' function in the new BB's will be useful to us all. M.
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Postby GiniDee » Tue May 11, 2004 3:43 am

Glad to see this discussion still rolling on. Thanks, Barbara for your input. Knowing how little time you have makes it that much more valuable to and valued by all of us. I see the boards are going down for upgrades soon, and look forward to seeing the new look and approach to at least some of these problems. Most especially the search function, which I still find somewhat harrowing. All the best to all of you. Will be back when I'm feeling better - Gini Image
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Postby soni » Tue May 11, 2004 9:28 am

LOL! You have been dying for months to get an opportunity to direct those words at me, haven't you? Do you feel better now?
Image Actually, I wasn't aiming them directly at anybody. Personally, I don't know you or your "style" well enough to aim anything at you directly (except to say that you do come across a bit brusque, but that's about it) nor do I generally used public forums to hash out anything directly with anybody (that's what pms are for). I was merely expressing an opinion to the world at large. I rarely aim any opinion-type posts at any specific person and if I do, I ususally come right out and say so, so no one else thinks I'm talking to/about them. I hate misunderstandings (being married, I've spent too many hours of my life arguing over what turned out to be verbal-cue misunderstandings - and with cyber-talk, I go out of my way to be clear to avoid that). But I am glad that even mistakenly thinking it was aimed at you directly, you had the grace to be amused rather than pissed. Image
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