Palin

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Re: Palin

Postby BarbaraSher » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:13 pm

skannie wrote:
BarbaraSher wrote:I've often thought that right-wingers lack the empathy chip. They don't know what liberals are talking about when they mention feelings, so they protect themselves by not believing it's real and/or make fun of it (bleeding hearts, tree huggers, soft-headed,etc.). Still looking for a sincere, well-informed right-winger. Still haven't found even one. But I have found a few sincere and kindly right-wingers. On asking how they became part of the rigid/unfeeling/authoritarian party it always turns out that they were born into it. The only lefties I know of who ever became righties should have been righties in the first place: they were ideologues without feelings, too passionate about rules and not passionate enough about the hour to hour, daily experience of people who are in trouble.
I agree with you about their attitude to rules and authoritarianism, but I'm not sure if it's just a right-wing/left-wing thing, although it might look that way in the US political system. Most of the communist governments in central Europe were also very rigid and authoritarian. But I must say they didn’t get everything wrong. They created excellent public transport and health and education systems, and everyone had a job. They at least cared about equality and the welfare of ordinary people in theory, even if it didn’t always work out in practice.
BarbaraSher wrote:I'm reading The Carpet Wars at breakfast these days, a close up by a journalist who traveled through Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iraq and wrote about it around 7 years after Desert Storm.
I had a quick read of the beginning of it on Amazon. Looks like a fascinating book. I must keep an eye out for it when I'm in England. I'll probably be doing plenty of reading then because I'll be off-line most of the time. Here's the link in case anyone else wants to see it. http://www.amazon.com/Carpet-Wars-Baghd ... 0060097329
Hi Skannie I don't think anyone calls either the Communist party of the Bolsheviks and Stalin or the 'Socialist' party of the Nazis anything but totalitarian. Left and right hardly describes them. They were almost identical in everything except propaganda. Even the Nazis provided security and the good life for the right people, until they were finally attacked on their home soil by the Allies. The good done by totalitarian states never works in the balance. It all turns out to be bread and circuses, mostly show. The theory is used to keep the people from revolting against the reality. Neither Communism or Fascism was like FDR's world, which could be called Liberal, Democratic, and left wing. Both Communism and Fascism are expressions of corporations becoming the same as the state. FDR put a stick in the spokes of unbridled greed and unfair power of the corporations by creating regulations that, in fact, saved capitalism from destruction. Totalitarians are like anyone else with power: they not only don't care about the lives of their people, they don't think ahead. The Czar was a fool; his stupidity allowed the revolution. The idealists were drummed out of the revolution very early and the totalitarians took charge. Rich and powerful people are often stupid, and when they're smart, greed blinds their intelligence. They know how to fill their cellars with all the food in the area and will take it any way they can get it, but they don't think to the next harvest. The graduated income tax was instituted by FDR because the rich had buried their wealth and taken it out of the economy, causing the crash. There was no money in circulation, no industries could survive because no one could buy but the super-rich. The rich have done the same thing under the 'conservatives,' since Reagan. It has been called 'the biggest transfer of wealth in history,' and the transfer has gone from the middle class to the super-rich. It's no surprise that the lenders aren't putting their bailout money into circulation. They don't care about the economy, they care only about their own stash. Bottom-line thinking, to the exclusion of any other concerns, is as guilty of this disaster as anything else. Quarterly reports to the stockholders long ago replaced any long-term plans of even the best-managed companies. Greed kills. It kills the rich, and impoverishes the middle class. The middle class is The Consumer. No Consumer, no Company.
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Re: Palin

Postby jcjm » Fri Dec 12, 2008 12:58 pm

Amazing, this thing sits for weeks and I make one comment and am surrounded with responses. This kind of proves my point. Liberals just sit around looking for something to get ticked off about. Amazingly, they don't get ticked off about Blagoyavich who is the Governor in the news now, they bring up Palins clothes. Two Governors. One buys clothes and one is selling a senate seat. Thats a no brainer for me. Blagoyavich makes Palin look like Mother Theresa. And now I will disappear for a while an see how long this dead horse gets beat, without me.
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Re: Palin

Postby merk » Fri Dec 12, 2008 2:31 pm

jcjm wrote:Amazing, this thing sits for weeks and I make one comment and am surrounded with responses. This kind of proves my point. Liberals just sit around looking for something to get ticked off about. Amazingly, they don't get ticked off about Blagoyavich who is the Governor in the news now, they bring up Palins clothes. Two Governors. One buys clothes and one is selling a senate seat. Thats a no brainer for me. Blagoyavich makes Palin look like Mother Theresa. And now I will disappear for a while an see how long this dead horse gets beat, without me.
jcm - who is the person that revived this thread? YOU DID. You know why we didn't get in an uproar over blagojevitch? because it seems like he's guilty and it seems like his going to go to jail and what more do you need to say about it? We agree - lock him away. He's a rotten person and should be locked away. Maybe I just got out of the wrong side of the bed today, but you seem AMAZINGLY rude lately. Do you have nothing better to do then jump into threads and insult everyone? If that's your idea of being middle of the road i am soooo glad i'm not middle of the road then.
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Re: Palin

Postby jcjm » Sat Dec 13, 2008 11:46 am

merk wrote:
jcjm wrote:Amazing, this thing sits for weeks and I make one comment and am surrounded with responses. This kind of proves my point. Liberals just sit around looking for something to get ticked off about. Amazingly, they don't get ticked off about Blagoyavich who is the Governor in the news now, they bring up Palins clothes. Two Governors. One buys clothes and one is selling a senate seat. Thats a no brainer for me. Blagoyavich makes Palin look like Mother Theresa. And now I will disappear for a while an see how long this dead horse gets beat, without me.
jcm - who is the person that revived this thread? YOU DID. You know why we didn't get in an uproar over blagojevitch? because it seems like he's guilty and it seems like his going to go to jail and what more do you need to say about it? We agree - lock him away. He's a rotten person and should be locked away. Maybe I just got out of the wrong side of the bed today, but you seem AMAZINGLY rude lately. Do you have nothing better to do then jump into threads and insult everyone? If that's your idea of being middle of the road i am soooo glad i'm not middle of the road then.
How much controversy there was over Palins wardrobe is still of more interest than Blagoyovich and the contacts he had with Jesse Jackson Jr., Obama's people, or at least 4 other Democrats up for the Senate seat. Why? Because Palin is still a threat and Blagoyovich is baggage that may bring down other people. Liberals would like this to go away as fast as possible, but one has to ask, how many despised people can Obama be associated and then distance himself from before it becomes more than a coincidence?
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Re: Palin

Postby DJCNOR » Sat Dec 13, 2008 12:03 pm

Note the way that liberals would have this go away as soon as possible: By the total and immediate removal of the corrupt politician from office. Compare and contrast that with how the Republicans have handled their own caught in scandals of a variety of types. Donna
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Re: Palin

Postby merk » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:32 am

jcjm wrote:How much controversy there was over Palins wardrobe is still of more interest than Blagoyovich and the contacts he had with Jesse Jackson Jr., Obama's people, or at least 4 other Democrats up for the Senate seat. Why? Because Palin is still a threat and Blagoyovich is baggage that may bring down other people. Liberals would like this to go away as fast as possible, but one has to ask, how many despised people can Obama be associated and then distance himself from before it becomes more than a coincidence?
There's not much interest over blago because no one is denying it other then blago himself. If everyone agree's he's rotten and should be locked up, what more is there to say on it? Do you want us to deny he's bad so we can argue over it anyhow? And again - the FBI has said they have nothing to indicate obama was part of blago's dirty dealing. and palin is not a threat - maybe in 4 years if people still stupid enough to get suckered into picking her, maybe then she'll be a threat. But right now, she's pretty much faded from the headlines. bottom line is blago is bad and i dont think anyone would say he shouldn't go to jail. There's not much to debate if everyone agrees. Sorry to disapoint you that we wont sit here and argue that he's good just so you can accuse us of being biased.
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Re: Palin

Postby Tituba » Sun Dec 14, 2008 2:37 am

Liberals just sit around looking for something to get ticked off about.
Take a look in the mirror. Your only reason for being on this board is to jump into threads and be ticked off and what we liberals are saying now.
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Re: Palin

Postby jcjm » Mon Dec 15, 2008 12:20 pm

For anyone who missed the connection, both Palin and Blagoyovich belong to an elite group consisting of only a few. 1 they are both current Governors 2 they both had Presidential aspirations 3 they both had associations with candidates in the last Presidential election Since there are only 50 governors, there might be 20 people in the world who have these 3 traits in common. I just think its odd that so much was made about Palin's wardrode and other quirks, however no one here has devoted a whole thread to Blagoyovich. It proves to me that it is all about Politics and not substance. People are outraged when it suits their cause, but not when it hurts their cause. As far as Merks comment about gettin up on the wrong side of the bed, I think a lot of Democrats have been getting up on the wrong side of the bed for the past 8 years and I can't understand why they are still getting up on the wrong side of the bed when they have the power. It seems like some just like getting up on the wrong side of the bed.
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Re: Palin

Postby merk » Mon Dec 15, 2008 1:27 pm

jcjm wrote:I just think its odd that so much was made about Palin's wardrode and other quirks, however no one here has devoted a whole thread to Blagoyovich. It proves to me that it is all about Politics and not substance. People are outraged when it suits their cause, but not when it hurts their cause. As far as Merks comment about gettin up on the wrong side of the bed, I think a lot of Democrats have been getting up on the wrong side of the bed for the past 8 years and I can't understand why they are still getting up on the wrong side of the bed when they have the power. It seems like some just like getting up on the wrong side of the bed.
You know why we're not outraged? Because no one is trying to say blago is a good guy. Pretty much everyone agrees he's bad and should go away. With palin though, her supporters thought she could do no wrong and supported everything about her regardless of any evidence or reasoning contrary. Why aren't you outraged about blago? The only thing you've had to say about blago is: 1. palin isn't as bad as blago 2. everyone else is biased because we didn't start a thread discussing how bad blago is. I dont really see the outrage from you. What would you like to discuss about blago? what issues do you feel need to be explored? Go start a thread on it and stop accusing people of things. If for no other reason, it's not going to get any sort of debates going if all you do is just accuse people of being biased, or extremists or whatever.
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Re: Palin

Postby jcjm » Tue Dec 16, 2008 10:54 am

I know quite a bit about Blagoyovich because I live in a state which borders IL and the local news has been covering him since he was elected. So, there is nothing I need to discuss about him. I just think it is one sided to nit pick Republicans and not even mention a Democrat who is about as corrupt as they come. Its just an opinion, not a discussion topic.
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Re: Palin

Postby merk » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:15 am

jcjm - we agree he's rotten. I dont understand what else you expect us to say. The only reason why there was any nit picking of republican is because you were defending them. There's no one here to defend blago because everyone agree's he's rotten. I really dont understand what you want. Do you want people to disagree with you just so you can argue about how rotten blago is?
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Re: Palin

Postby jcjm » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:43 am

merk wrote:jcjm - we agree he's rotten. I dont understand what else you expect us to say. The only reason why there was any nit picking of republican is because you were defending them. There's no one here to defend blago because everyone agree's he's rotten. I really dont understand what you want. Do you want people to disagree with you just so you can argue about how rotten blago is?
Yes, I was defending them because someone started a thread on the subject. No one started a thread about Blagoyovich. People don't care about justice, they just care about what furthers their point of view.
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Re: Palin

Postby merk » Tue Dec 16, 2008 11:47 am

jcjm wrote:Yes, I was defending them because someone started a thread on the subject. No one started a thread about Blagoyovich. People don't care about justice, they just care about what furthers their point of view.
we agree blago is bad and should be put away - and some how that shows we dont care about justice? ok if you say so.
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Re: Palin

Postby jcjm » Thu Dec 18, 2008 2:22 pm

Merk, I've tried to answer this several times and words fail me. My concern is that people find the time to sling mud along party lines but not along fairness lines. There are all kind of threads and posts slinging mud at Republicans, but when a Democrat actually does something, no one thinks its worth posting about. The most they have to say is, oh yeah thats bad. No rants, no links to the story, no daily reports,no effort at all. That is party politics, not looking for justice and makes this whole political section look like one big spin..
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Re: Palin

Postby merk » Thu Dec 18, 2008 3:55 pm

i thnk the reason why you didn't see us post any rants about blago is because no one, other then maybe blago himself, is trying to cover it up. As far as i know, the democratic party isn't trying to protect him or hide evidence. But for most of bush's term in office, they controlled all the strings and manipulated things/people to direct attention away from anything they didn't want discussed. That's why people 'ranted' about so many things. Also, blago is not a major national figure - what he has done is more of a regional thing. So unless you live in his state, it's probably not as important to you as what the president and his cabinet is doing. We've ranted more about the republicans because bush trampled all over the laws and the republican party just stuck by party lines and did nothing to stop him. The republicans were the ones that up until recently had all the power. So they took most of the heat. Now things are balancing out more so we'll see what happens in the coming weeks, especially after obama is sworn in.
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