Obama

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Re: Obama

Postby DJCNOR » Mon Mar 15, 2010 5:57 pm

Actually we haven't said Obama wasn't obliged to change things. All we've said is that Obama is not obliged to change in 1 year what Bush took 8 years to mess up. And that not managing to entirely clean up an 8 year mess in one year was not bad at all, especially when facing radical obstructionism every time he makes clear he intends to change something. That being said, I, too, agree that you are just being trollish, but I got in trouble one time for calling someone a troll on this site, so I, too, will just stop responding to your nonsense. D
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Re: Obama

Postby jcjm » Tue Mar 16, 2010 8:01 am

This thread starts out:
So glad the worst president ever and his evil side-kick are gone!
Other threads have made Bush out to be worse than Hitler, Stalin, etc., since before he was even elected or done one thing. So, if he was so bad why is Obama following in his footsteps? Why 1) are we still in Iraq 2) are we still in Afganistan 3) are we still at GITMO 4) is unemployment way beyond 8% 5) do we still have conflicts of interest and scandals in Congress 6) isn't everything public on the web like Obama said it would be 7) hasn't a decent healthcare bill been passed These are all things Obama said he was going to change right away, not down the road and the last 4 weren't an issue until Obama took office. My conclusion is the same. Either Obama is a bad President for not changing them, or Bush was on the right track because they can't be changed immediately.
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Re: Obama

Postby jcjm » Thu May 06, 2010 10:23 am

Unemployment is still high, way too many peoples houses are being forclosed on, we have oil all over the gulf and amateurs are leaving bombs in Times Square.

If this is Obama's idea of change, George Bush is starting to look like Einstein.
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Re: Obama

Postby merk » Thu May 06, 2010 11:03 am

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Re: Obama

Postby Tituba » Thu May 06, 2010 3:54 pm

The economy is turning around. Most realtors are very busy right now selling houses - even getting competing bids. The housing market is turning around and the rest will follow. Obama is doing a great job.

If this is Obama's idea of change, George Bush is starting to look like Einstein


Ah yes, the song is the same. Everything is Obama's fault and Bush is your hero. Yawn
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Re: Obama

Postby jcjm » Sun May 09, 2010 2:34 pm

I don't see things getting better and there is a difference between forclosures and housing starts or sales. Likewise a difference between number of jobs being created and number of jobs being lost.

It isn't a turn around when there are more jobs being eliminated than created.
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Re: Obama

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon May 10, 2010 6:28 am

Thanks for always being our glass-half-empty guy. Makes me glad and appreciate my optimism in general.

Things will get better, they always do. It's cyclical. The economy. I have a hard time believing we're going down the tubes. I guess if we do, we do. Who, knows too, Iran could sink a missile on us, a hidden asteroid could hit us, global warming could hit a tipping point. There will be natural disasters and economic turmoil in the future. I don't really see the point in bitching and moaning about it.

Speaking of real estate, that reminds me of this mortgage broker one of my coworkers knows. He's pretty wealthy already, but is actually doing the same or better during this economic crunch because of all the re-fi's over the last year or so (for those who can get them). Of course, I'm sure not all mortgage brokers have done well, but it is always interesting to hear about what this guy is doing periodically.
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Re: Obama

Postby Tituba » Mon May 10, 2010 7:18 am

Who, knows too, Iran could sink a missile on us, a hidden asteroid could hit us, global warming could hit a tipping point. There will be natural disasters and economic turmoil in the future.


and jcjm will say it is all Obama's fault and we'd be better off with Bush.
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Re: Obama

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon May 10, 2010 7:30 am

... as we all vaporize into the atmosphere ...
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Re: Obama

Postby jcjm » Tue May 11, 2010 9:45 am

Things will get better, they always do. It's cyclical.


Thats true, but how fast they get better is the question. Otherwise, we are wasting a lot of money paying politians to make decisions.

Just how long does Obama get a pass and let things stay below what they were when he took office?

Its one thing to gain the ground lost under Bush, but he hasn't even brought things back to Bush's low. Things are still worse than when Obama took office (the market, jobs, etc.).

Seems absurd to blame Bush for what happened from Oct 2008-Jan 2009, and give Obama a pass from Jan 2009-May 2010. A time that is almost 5 times longer and has seen more job losses and overall loss of peoples assets.

Surely by now, he should have been able to hit a bottom and bring things back to at least where he inherited them.
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Re: Obama

Postby merk » Tue May 11, 2010 10:06 am

i have the same question i had for you before - what has he done wrong or what should he have done that he hasn't done?
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Re: Obama

Postby Scenario Thinker » Tue May 11, 2010 10:31 am

What happened in 2008/2009 was a result of a long accumulation of bad policy changes and bad business practices that largely went unregulated. I mean come on, people were living high on the hog, riding yet another bubble, thinking it would never end. All Obama can do is try and change policy, and then along with the natural swing of the economy, get back to some prosperity. We don't know how long it will be, no one does. If anyone did, they'd be profiting on it.

jcjm wrote:Just how long does Obama get a pass and let things stay below what they were when he took office?

What's funny is you seem to be thinking the few people who participate on this board (and in the politics section) are giving him "a pass". Are you going anywhere else and bitching about everything Obama? Why don't you go bitch to Obama, write letters to him or something. Bitching on this teeny board isn't doing any good, unless it's cathartic for you.
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Re: Obama

Postby jcjm » Wed May 12, 2010 12:22 pm

Merk: I've said before, where and when he was sitting around doing nothing, when he could have done something.

Scenario: I give Bush credit for what he did wrong, but I also have to give Obama credit for what he did wrong since he took office.

Since unemployment and most of the economic things are at worse levels than when Obama took office, I do think it is giving him a pass to blame it on Bush. Unemployment was at about 7% when Bush left office, so anything worse than that is all Obama's.

The stock market took a jump in the last year but that was only after taking a larger drop, all since Obama took office. So to say the market is up 25% in the last year is not telling the whole story. It also took about a 40% drop since Obama took office, so that 25% gain still leaves us at 15% below where we were when Obama took office.

To say things are better than what they were a year ago, is not the same as saying they are as good as when Obama took office, and I think a lot of people would like to make people think they are.

Things are still worse than they were when Obama took office, like employment, the dow, forclosures and a lot of other economic things and saying they are better than they were just doesn't cut it for me. Thats like saying working for 50% of what you were making is better than being unemployed. Yeah, but not much better.
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Re: Obama

Postby Scenario Thinker » Wed May 12, 2010 12:39 pm

If you were an economist, I would take what you say a little more seriously, but I really don't think you understand the (macro) economics of the situation. Yes, maybe the measurement in numbers got worse when Obama took office, but it was the momentum of it, not just because the guard changed. Bush and his regime and extreme lack of regulation caused a lot of the bubble and eventual downhill slide. Obama's not going to stop a moving bobsled midstream and turn it around very quickly.

Maybe we should see where things are after Obama's in there 8 years and compare it to where things were when Bush was in there 8 years. Then, it's an "apples to apples" comparison, but still not correct, because of what I mentioned above (economic cycles, momentum, etc.). If they swapped time periods, things would change based on the economic times. I think more than we think is just attributed to the economic conditions. Yes, policy will influence it, and maybe greatly, but none of this happens over night. Bush didn't change it over night, either.
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Re: Obama

Postby merk » Wed May 12, 2010 12:45 pm

saying it's 'all obama's' after bush is really just being completely unrealistic in the real world.

it's not like as soon as obama took office, there's some magic cut off line and things instantly change. You can't just snap your fingers and make the economy make an immediate about-face.

You want to focus on unemployment and say it's bad - ok, it's bad. However, pretty much every economy expert i've heard over the last several months have all said the economy has turned around. I'm not sure MOST economic things are at worse levels. Just today on the radio they were saying something about retailers and manufacturers. I only caught part of it but it was basically saying things are getting better.

You keep slamming obama for the economy and haven't yet said what he did wrong or should have done different. The closest you have come to this is when they made their announcement a while back about how they were going to sit down and discuss the unemployment. And you just assumed that meant that up until that moment, they never discussed it or did anything about it.

Here's a suggestion - stop pointing to symptoms. Start telling me something specific you think should have been done, that hasn't been done. Or tell me something specific that you think he did wrong. All you are doing so far, from my point of view, is complaining things are bad and saying they should be better. Give me the causes, not the symptoms. You can't fix the economy over-night. Right now you sound like a child who doesn't want to wait for the cake to finish baking and is just demanding the cake be ready to eat right now. Tell me how the cake could be made quicker without burning it.
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