The Republican party is completely broken

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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Scenario Thinker » Wed Nov 07, 2012 10:15 am

Good way to put it.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby SquarePeg » Wed Nov 07, 2012 12:38 pm

I happened to mention that I voted Libertarian to the first person at work who brought up the topic of the election. He said that he, too, also voted Libertarian and added that the boss and his son are Libertarians.

I used to be Republican, but I'm sick of all their religious zealotry.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby merk » Wed Nov 07, 2012 1:45 pm

I still think the republican party is broken jcjm. They seem to keep sliding further and further backwards.

I don't understand how ANY politician in the US can stand up and say they think evolution is a lie put forth by the devil. Or how they can stand up and say a woman who is raped has an internal process to prevent pregnancies from rape. Or that pregnancies from the result of rape are something god intended and that they should not be allowed to have an abortion.

these are all things republican officials have said. I am amazed someone in public office in the USA said those things and they weren't said by someone in the Taliban.

How is that not broken?

The only question unanswered for me is if they really believe their own insanity, or if they are just saying things they think will get them elected.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby jcjm » Thu Nov 08, 2012 8:11 am

II don't understand how ANY politician in the US can stand up and say they think evolution is a lie put forth by the devil. Or how they can stand up and say a woman who is raped has an internal process to prevent pregnancies from rape. Or that pregnancies from the result of rape are something god intended and that they should not be allowed to have an abortion.

these are all things republican officials have said. I am amazed someone in public office in the USA said those things and they weren't said by someone in the Taliban.

How is that not broken?



People believe a lot of strang things, so I don't judge their beliefs.

The US is a largely Judeo Christian country, so we give a lot of that a pass but look strangely on Muslims, Hindus, and even some Christian beliefs like Mormons and Christian Scientists.

The fact that a politician would even get into some of that stuff tells me more about their judgement than their character.

Example: Todd Akin and the other person who made the rape comments.

Poor judgement to go there in the first place because the amount of abortions from rape are (from what I see) are less than 1 in 1000. So why even take the bait. You have nothing to gain. By going there you exercise poor judgement.

In addition, from what I see, you can't legislate abortion, it has already been decided by the supreme court. The only way to make a law would be to appoint new members to the court, which only the President can do, not a Senator. So until a President appoints a new court, you're out of the loop on making laws.

If it were me I wouldn't have taken the bait in the first place and just said...That is a non issue at this point, when the Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade ask me again.

As I said, there are a lot of strange things people believe. Putting them out there for a reporter, when there is only downside, shows poor judgement, which is cause for more of an issue to me than what a person believes. It shows they are out of control and a fanatic, not someone I want to be in the Senate.

Surprisingly Akin got a fair amount of the vote even though McCaskil won, but more surprising the libertarian candiate got over 7% of the vote. Seems like a lot of people didn't like either one of the main candidates and being in Missouri, I know a lot of people just left it blank.

******************************************************************************************************************************************************************

As far as the party being broke? Their are extremists and nut cases on both sides. They don't speak for the entire party and in fact every past Republican Senator from Missouri, as well as Romney said Akin was wrong and should drop out.

We are a country that encourages freedom of religion, but bad judgement is something else.

Good judgement and getting the facts right are a job requirement for a Senator.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby merk » Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:52 pm

i think we're splitting hairs now - you want to judge them based on their judgement, where as you say i am judging them on their beliefs. Isn't it better if they make their beliefs public if those beliefs are going to guide them in office? Or do you think they should keep those things secret?

I don't think someone in public office in the US should hold such ignorant beliefs as thinking that when a woman gets raped, there's some sort of natural process to prevent pregnancy. I mean, these are pretty basic biological functions. And someone trying to hold higher office in the US is completely ignorant of them?

As for beliefs - that evolution is a lie told by the devil or that pregnancy from rape is intended by god - i don't know how you can not judge someone on those beliefs when they are trying legislate based on those beliefs. If they are trying to prevent the teaching of evolution, or trying to prevent abortions because they think god intended the pregnancy, then you damn well better judge them on their beliefs.

if they keep their beliefs separate and private from their public office, then fine you can argue we shouldn't judge their beliefs. But when they want to turn their beliefs into laws, you better weigh their worthiness to hold office based on those beliefs, because if you don't, their beliefs will become OUR laws.

And the fact that people can push beliefs like that, beliefs that aren't that far off from the Taliban and other extremists, and not get condemned by their party i think shows their party is broken.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Tituba » Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:31 am

And the fact that people can push beliefs like that, beliefs that aren't that far off from the Taliban and other extremists, and not get condemned by their party i think shows their party is broken.


This election may have been the sobering event that makes them change. Then again, maybe it'll take another Democratic presidential win to hammer the point home. Whenever a group let's the fringe be their voice, tail wagging the dog, they lose focus. They have alot of work to do to "unbrand" their message.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby jcjm » Sun Nov 11, 2012 2:15 pm

What I am saying is that to me a strange beleif isn't the problem, the problem is that it could be a part of a larger problem of poor judgement.

Romney got millions of votes, but most likely few of those people buy Mormon teachings. Probably many think them strange, but they still voted for him.

So to me it isn't a pesons religious beliefs or any beliefs, but their judgement and does their beleif cloud their judgement.

Getting the facts straight and being able to communicate are also needed. Had Akin said abortion from rape is infrequent because many women who become pregnant from a rape miscarry because of the trauma from the assult, no one except voters in St. Louis would have known, but the choice of the terms "Legitimat rape" and "shut down", sent it viral.

Poor knowlegedge of the subject, poor choice of words and poor judgement. However, that isn't why he lost the race. He lost because he was on tape saying other stupid things about social security, medicare, and student loans. Those things made Ron Paul look like a philosphy major and showed this was not a one time slip, but a pattern.

Surprisingly, Akin still got almost 40% of the vote. With all the national attention and constant running of his stupid statements, decreased contributions and the resultant very little advertising, McCaskil didn't walk away with the election. From overall vote totals, many people either voted for neither or the libertarian candidate.

I'm surprised Akin got any votes but apparently people don't care about any of that, just if you are going to vote the way they want on issues.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Scenario Thinker » Sun Nov 11, 2012 8:05 pm

Obama won because, as a collective whole (meaning many moving parts[voters] acting together), they judged Obama would do a better job for the next four years, regardless of how extreme any few view their judgement or believe in strange things.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Tituba » Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:32 pm

I don't think religion entered into this decision. If at all, a very small %. Romney is not a nice person and people sensed that and knew he didn't get them (nor cared). They felt that Obama does care and does get it. When you abuse your dog, hide your money in off shore accounts and refuse to release your tax returns, tell 47% of the people who you want to vote for you that they are losers and come off as a rich elitist, you don't speak to the mass.

The best quote I heard was from the Daily Show:

"Obama may have disappointed, but Romney is a dick."

We didn't have a great choice this election. People voted for the one they thought would do them the least harm.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:08 am

Yeah, less harm, better job, similar idea. I remember my mom saying a presidential candidate would do us the least harm back when I was a kid (forget who it was). :)
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby jcjm » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:05 am

Obama does come off as a nice guy who you can relate to.

Romney tried to come off as a nice guy and the same as everyone else, but he couldn't pull it off. No matter how many times he wore jeans and casual clothes, they were still designer clothes and not what most people wore. That stood out, he was too preppy for Joe sixpack.

He also had bad associations. His choice of vice president may have solidfied the base but not the swing voters. Ryan is even more hard line than Romney and that isn't a way to get swing voters. Ryan couldn't even secure his own state.

However, I don't think that makes the party broken. I think they took a beating during primaries (which Obama didn't have), then they make the same mistake they did in the Trueman/Dewey election. They though Obama was so vulnerable on the economy that they went to the extreme right. Things stabalized and got a little better and their strategy became compromised.

More of a timing error and overconfidence that everyone would see it their way on the economy, than a broke party.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Tituba » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:21 am

Hubris comes before the fall.

Don't forget, they also had public jokes (Eastwood talking to a chair, Trump spewing out his crap). If they want to win next election, they need credible candidates that cross political lines. (like a ticket with Colin Powell and Condoleezza Rice)

The fact that they are stunned they lost, shows how out of touch they were with what is really going on in this country. Yes, the economy could have been a hammer blow to Obama. It wasn't because the Rep. handled it badly, and Obama was just plain better at campaign promotion.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Nov 12, 2012 7:49 am

jcjm wrote:I think they took a beating during primaries (which Obama didn't have), ...

Yeah, he only had 4 years of being the president, piece of cake.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Tituba » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:29 am

Quote from Gingrich

Asked about the editorial on "Today," Gingrich admitted, "I was wrong last week, as was virtually every major Republican analyst. And so, you have to stop and say to yourself, 'If I was that far off, what do I need to learn to better understand America.'"

Just maybe, dinosaurs can learn.....
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby jcjm » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:25 am

Yeah, he only had 4 years of being the president, piece of cake.


Not a piece of cake, but it is easier to overcome an attack by the opposition party than one by people in your own party.

Don't forget, they also had public jokes (Eastwood talking to a chair, Trump spewing out his crap


Trump is a publicity seeker who happens to be a Republican. Eastwood was (to me ) one of the most interesting things in an otherwise dull convention, but once again a celebrity who is Republican, not a spokesman for the party.


The Republicans lost but it wasn't that bad of a defeat. Less than 70,000 votes in Florida, Less than 100,000 votes in Ohio and the rest of the swing states.

To me their biggest defeat was that both the Presidential and Vice Presidential candidates couldn't carry their own states. If they had each carried their own states and picked up a couple of the swing states, it would have been different. I'm not doing what if, just pointing to the numbers and the margin of victory.

Obama got 100 more electoral votes, but the margins in some of those states weren't that big.

Luckily for Obama, the October surprize was no surprise, and Bengazi and the CIA affair, were not an issue at the time. but I am sure some people will try to say that Obama hid these and also lowered gas prices and cooked the books on unemployment figures, to win.

It is what it is. Obama won, but it was no peice of cake.

I have to think there was a lot of sweating and nervousness in the Obama camp during the counting of those first 450 electoral votes.
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