The Republican party is completely broken

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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Tituba » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:50 am

Agreed, it was not a landslide or mandate. They like to say they didn't win Mass. because it has a strong Democratic presence. Except.....Massachusetts voted in both Romney and Scott Brown. Both lost this time. Scott Brown bills himself as bi-partisan. He certainly is an attractive candidate. He lost because he voted against the fair pay act. He then attacked Elizabeth Warren on non-issues. I don't know how the voting breaks down, but feel that women played a large role in deciding the 2012 outcome.

Can't speak to why Ryan didn't carry his state. I'd guess it was because of his Taliban like views on women.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:35 pm

jcjm wrote:
Yeah, he only had 4 years of being the president, piece of cake.


Not a piece of cake, but it is easier to overcome an attack by the opposition party than one by people in your own party.


Also a piece of cake to knock what the president has done in the last 4 years (actual results), versus saying you'll do better, and not saying how. Obama would have had to do the same against an incumbent.

Anyone who believes the president has that much magic power to lower gas prices and unemployment, ... I don't know what to say. Maybe "Oye". :)
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Tituba » Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:53 pm

I think the public at large doesn't understand the complexities of any of this and, therefore, expects a 30-min-sitcom resolution to all things. If you talk to anyone who lived through the Great Depression, they'll tell you how there are no quick, easy answers.

I thought Clinton's speech was especially powerful. When he said that no one, not him, none of his predecessors could done better at bringing back such a damaged economy.

The two areas I give Obama A+ is how he handled the auto industry meltdown and his foreign policy/keeping us safe. I'm sure there have been lots of dangerous plots in the last four years and we have not had any more 911's. He has shown himself to be a strong leader in those areas.

I don't know enough about the health plan to know if it is a good thing or not. I do know that the Rep. label it as some kind of evil that will enslave all of us. All this nonsense about birth certificates just make rational people laugh at them. There are plenty of real issues the Rep. could have talked about that would have made a difference in the results. Instead, they focused on demonizing Obamacare, women's issues, immigration and wagging their finger at the economy. You got a better plan? Where are the details? Clinton said it best when he said that he balanced the budget using arithmetic. That the Rep. plan could not work as it just didn't add up. Many economists agreed. People figured they'd be better off with Obama than more promises that had no substance.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Nov 12, 2012 1:13 pm

jcjm wrote:The Republicans lost but it wasn't that bad of a defeat. Less than 70,000 votes in Florida, Less than 100,000 votes in Ohio and the rest of the swing states.

And only 3.3 million overall (out of 123 million). Interestingly, Obama won ALL the swing states. Plus, he won by about a 50% to 48% plus or minus, which is what the overall popular vote was. So, the separate battlegrounds mirrored the overall. You would think Romney would have won one or two.

Here's a pretty good map showing the country and all the states/counties, if you want to drill down:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/sp ... president/

Here's a good visual representation (don't know why they reversed the red and blue):
http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby merk » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:01 pm

jcjm wrote:Trump is a publicity seeker who happens to be a Republican. Eastwood was (to me ) one of the most interesting things in an otherwise dull convention, but once again a celebrity who is Republican, not a spokesman for the party.

I dont think you can really say Eastwood wasnt a spokesman for the party, if they invited him to speak at their biggest event.

I realize people like limbaugh and coulter arent official representatives for the republican party. But I don't think i've ever heard anyone from the republican party speak out against them when they step over the line. The party seems to be fine with letting them act as unofficial representatives of the party.

In both this election and the last one their choice for a VP was someone who was more of an extreme right wing person. They constantly seem to be going further and further to the right. You simply can not have people in your party making all these insane statements and still have a viable, working (not broken) party.

Maybe it's because the average american isn't what they used to be a generation ago. We're not the white male nation any more - were much more of a melting pot. And instead of adjusting their positions to remain conservative but moderate, they are instead appealing to the fear and paranoia some of their base is feeling by this change in the demographics of the US population, and creeping further and further to the extreme right wing.

tituba wrote:I think the public at large doesn't understand the complexities of any of this and, therefore, expects a 30-min-sitcom resolution to all things. If you talk to anyone who lived through the Great Depression, they'll tell you how there are no quick, easy answers.

I agree with this %100. I think most people expect any problem to be solved in one term, and if it's not all fixed, they think whoever is in charge failed. Sometimes they do fail - but on the economy I think Obama is doing ok.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Tituba » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:24 pm

I dont think you can really say Eastwood wasnt a spokesman for the party, if they invited him to speak at their biggest event.

I realize people like limbaugh and coulter arent official representatives for the republican party. But I don't think i've ever heard anyone from the republican party speak out against them when they step over the line. The party seems to be fine with letting them act as unofficial representatives of the party.


Agreed. You are judged by the company you keep. When you have these hate mongers spreading their particular insanity and don't make a statement distancing yourself, you are in effect, the same as them. Silence is permission. Maybe there are members of the party a bit scared of these talking heads. They should be. They are the fringe that seems to be the only voice we hear.

I agree with Merk, it is broken. Or maybe evolving. I was reading about Lincoln (the new movie is suppose to be great) and was surprised to find out there was a time when the Republican party was actually more like the Democrats are now.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby merk » Tue Nov 13, 2012 6:25 pm

Tituba wrote:
Or maybe evolving.

I'd say de-volving - and that's not a joke.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby jcjm » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:05 am

Eastwood was invited to the Republican convention, but I still think it was for his celebrity status not his representing the party. In much the same way as Katy Perry and Bruce Springsteen were used by the Democrats. An opportunity to fill the seats, not for their political savy.

As far as Limbaugh and Coulter, etc., the Dems have a whole line up on MSNBC, Rachael Maddow, Ed Schultz, Chris Mathews, etc. None of these people speak for the party and they in fact are called commentators, analysts, strategists, but most of all entertainers. They all grab a sound bite that fits their purpose and run with it. The difference is, the money they make is usually more important than the cause they support. They aren't even good commentators, they are entertainers out to make a buck. Even Limbaughs radio awards aren't for news or commentary, they are for entertainer.

To say these people speak for the party is a stretch. Even James Carville and Karl Rove aren't spokesmen. They just are analysts who have experience running a campaign. Their experience is the key, just as you have a retired General as an analyst on forign affairs.

No candidate has time to address every comment by an anlyst, commentator, etc. In fact that is backward, the anlyst addresses the candiate, not the other way around. In many cases defending yourself to these hacks is like defending yourself to SNL. Its a sad state of the media when people start to think John Steward, Colbert, and Dennis Miller are actual news people. They are entertainers and in this case comedians. The fact that they get it right once in a while is a fluke.

Trying to compare Obama and Romney with Clint Eastwood, Katy Perry, and even Limbaugh and Schultz is (using one of Ed Schultze's lines) crazy talk.

I'm sure some Dems say the Rep party is broke and you can get just as may Reps to say the Dem party is broke, but that doesn't really matter. What matters is what each party says about itself.

Even after victory is claimed and defeat is accepted, neither party is saying they can't do better.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby merk » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:56 pm

jcjm wrote:Eastwood was invited to the Republican convention, but I still think it was for his celebrity status not his representing the party. In much the same way as Katy Perry and Bruce Springsteen were used by the Democrats. An opportunity to fill the seats, not for their political savy.
I disagree - if you invite someone to speak at your convention, you are in effect having them as a spokesperson. I'm not saying i expect that everything eastwood said would become their party platform 100%. But you don't invite someone to speak at your national televised event and expect people NOT to think he represents you to a degree. Personally, i don't really care what eastwood said. At worst, it was just stupid. At least he didn't really say anything offensive.

As far as Limbaugh and Coulter, etc., the Dems have a whole line up on MSNBC, Rachael Maddow, Ed Schultz, Chris Mathews, etc. None of these people speak for the party and they in fact are called commentators, analysts, strategists, but most of all entertainers. They all grab a sound bite that fits their purpose and run with it. The difference is, the money they make is usually more important than the cause they support. They aren't even good commentators, they are entertainers out to make a buck. Even Limbaughs radio awards aren't for news or commentary, they are for entertainer.

To say these people speak for the party is a stretch. Even James Carville and Karl Rove aren't spokesmen. They just are analysts who have experience running a campaign. Their experience is the key, just as you have a retired General as an analyst on forign affairs.
Limbaugh/coulter does represent the party to an extent. I don't think i've heard anyone in the republican party denounce them when ever they say anything offense. Am i saying they are 'official' spokes people for the party? No. Am i saying everything they say will become the party platform? No. but they do represent the party to an extent.

No candidate has time to address every comment by an anlyst, commentator, etc. In fact that is backward, the anlyst addresses the candiate, not the other way around. In many cases defending yourself to these hacks is like defending yourself to SNL. Its a sad state of the media when people start to think John Steward, Colbert, and Dennis Miller are actual news people. They are entertainers and in this case comedians. The fact that they get it right once in a while is a fluke.

Actually, i consider colbert/stewart to be more news worthy then the news. I have NEVER seen any of the 'news' shows show a video clip of some politician saying "i never said so and so" and then show you 10 clips of them saying "so and so". The daily show does that all the time. That's what we need the news to do.

I still feel like you are splitting hairs here and we're really debating semantics rather then the actual subject. I don't care what you call limbaugh or coulter. The fact is they have a significant amount of political clout and they do represent a portion of the republican party.

Unless the republican party makes some drastic changes, i think it's going to slide into irrelevance since right now they seem to be hell bent on making their base afraid of the changing demographics in the country rather then embracing those changes,
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby jcjm » Fri Nov 16, 2012 7:50 am

I don't care what you call limbaugh or coulter. The fact is they have a significant amount of political clout and they do represent a portion of the republican party.


We can agree to disagree.

I don't see them as part of the political process. They try to come off as analysts, writers, or even journalists, but they are entertainers who make their money from the media and books. Even Rove and Carville get paid for their "insight" because they ran campaigns, like the generals on forign affairs. A talking heard for hire.

I don't take any of them seriously. They are just out to make a buck. They appear on news shows so their books will sell.

If the money weren't there, they would be gone. In fact Limbaugh probably makes more money when the Reps are out of office. They thrive by crying about how bad it is and how stupid everyone in the opposition is.

I can't really take them seriously.
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As far as the polital satirists, they are just that. People who make fun of politics, not part of the political machine or even the news machine.

I learn things from Leno and Letterman's monologue, but I wouldn't consider them or the rest as a source of facts.

They are in it for the jokes, not the facts.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby merk » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:11 am

It sounds like you are mixing up what they are in it for, and what the reality of the situation is.

I agree that things like the daily show are for entertainment. That Stewart or Colbert are in it for the jokes (mainly). But the sad fact is that their comedy is often more informative then the news. As i pointed out, i've NEVER seen a news show actually calling out a politician when they lie. The daily show does that all the time. Maybe they are doing it purely to make you laugh, but they are still being more informative then the news often is.

You may not take Limbuagh or whoever seriously. Maybe they don't take themselves seriously either and just say what they say to make a buck. But a lot of people do take them seriously. I've had the misfortune to listen to some of their shows sometimes, and it's clear from the people who call in as well as what some people post online they they follow these people and take to heart what they say.

That's why i say they represent, to an extent, the party. Or at least a significant segment of it.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:09 am

merk wrote:But a lot of people do take them seriously. I've had the misfortune to listen to some of their shows sometimes, and it's clear from the people who call in as well as what some people post online they they follow these people and take to heart what they say.

People seek out information and other people that/who support their beliefs.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby jcjm » Mon Nov 19, 2012 7:02 am

Agreed,
1 the fringe on both sides seek out like minded people
2 sometimes comedy does point out things that the real news doesn't
3 its a sad time when people get more substance from the jokes than the real news
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby SquarePeg » Mon Nov 19, 2012 12:31 pm

I stay current by reading Mad Magazine. Kinda seriously.
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Re: The Republican party is completely broken

Postby Tituba » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:35 pm

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