The Fiscal Cliff

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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby Tituba » Thu Dec 27, 2012 9:53 am

It is all a pissing contest. The right doesn't want to "cave" as it then sets a tone for the next four years and their pride can't take it. The left needs to let the right "win" and save face but yet get the thing done. It is all a game and we, unfortunately, are the ones that pay the price. Nothing new about any of this.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby Tituba » Mon Dec 31, 2012 2:46 pm

No point in being surprised about today's situation. Just plain sad. Could anyone believe that our system isn't fundamentally broken.... They are all a bunch of liars, thieves and heartless piss-asses (both sides of the isle).
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby Scenario Thinker » Mon Dec 31, 2012 3:28 pm

No harm to them, though.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby Tituba » Mon Dec 31, 2012 4:06 pm

Look what happened in Greece. They think it couldn't happen here, but it could. You take away people's life lines and stomp on them, they hit back. I feel so bad for all those people who now have no unemployment checks and no jobs.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby jcjm » Fri Jan 04, 2013 2:56 pm

Seems like we have been here before. Make a deal and give them a couple of months for the rest or kick the can down the road so to speak.

I couldn't believe the Republicans talking about how they are there to serve. Serve who? The people or the people who give to your campaign fund?
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby Scenario Thinker » Fri Jan 04, 2013 3:39 pm

Yes, the people, the rich people.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby merk » Fri Jan 04, 2013 4:17 pm

The republicans server their own party. it's party loyalty first and foremost. Everything else, including the country, is a very distant second.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby jcjm » Mon Jan 07, 2013 7:09 am

My big question is do Republican's really believe trickle down economics works, or do they think the rest of us are so stupid that we can't see it doesn't work?

If they do, I would have to point out that trickle up economics works just as well if not better.


But this is on the fical cliff and solutions and I didn't see much of the solutions I laid out in the first posts. In fact i didn't see many solutions at all, but there was pork in the bill. One of the major magazines and cable networks pointed some of them out.

As much as I didn't like Nixon, he had the answer years ago. Freeze spending at current rates and have a sur tax of 3% while you figure it out. This would effectively reduce spending by about 6% because we would be freezing spending instead of increaseing it by about 3%.

That is a very simple answer, that would keep the legislators hands off of the Social Security trust fund (4 trillion) which both the right and the left want to get their hands on.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby merk » Mon Jan 07, 2013 2:47 pm

I guess i agree with you - although instead of freezing spending, i'd prevent them from raising the debt ceiling. So sort of the same thing - except they have the option of increased spending, as long as they can find a way to pay for it, either by taxes or cuts in other areas. The fact they we are even considering raising the debt ceiling is just beyond stupidity.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby jcjm » Tue Jan 08, 2013 7:09 am

I agree, not raising the debt ceiling would do pretty much the same as freezing spending at current levels. Then they could decide what can be cut.

I think it is inexcusible to put pork in a bill (to get votes) that is a tax increase.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby Tituba » Sat Jan 12, 2013 3:40 pm

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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby jcjm » Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:40 am

Its simple math a first grader could do.

total revenue = total expenses

***If you want to spend more you have to tax more.

***If you want to reduce taxes you have to spend less (or at least spend less on some to spend more on others).
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby SquarePeg » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:14 am

It seems simple, but the knobs for increasing revenue and reducing expenses are non-linear and inter-related. It's not just about balancing the budget and possibly reducing debt. It's about maintaining growth in the economy. But you know that, I'm sure! ;)
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby jcjm » Tue Jan 15, 2013 6:54 am

It's not just about balancing the budget and possibly reducing debt. It's about maintaining growth in the economy.


Actuaually its not.

Balancing the budget and reducing debt is one thing. Maintaining growth in the economy is another.

The first is the governments responsibility. The second is something government has taken on to win votes.

They have a responsibility and the power to make laws to maintain the budget. What is good for the economy is totally a matter of opinion, which falls into the politics arena.

That is why we have a problem, politicians are doing what gets votes and is good for their supporters instead of doing what is ethically right and needs to be done.
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Re: The Fiscal Cliff

Postby merk » Tue Jan 15, 2013 5:08 pm

I disagree jcjm - i dont think the govt can just ignore anything dealing with growing (or shrinking) the economy. I think it would be completely foolish for them to take that approach.

They have to try and take into account how taxing and spending will effect the growth of the economy. What is good for the economy is not entirely opinion. There are people who devote their whole careers to studying the economy. Is one anyone person 100% correct about the economy? I rather doubt it. but they do have some good insights and to just assume the economy is completely unpredictable and to not bother trying to regulate it seems like a head in the sand approach to me.
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